Most B2B tech companies have rushed to add “AI-powered” or “agentic” labels to their products, but they have no idea if their messaging is actually landing or just adding to the noise. While product teams ship features at lightning speed, marketing teams are often left struggling with positioning that sounds exactly like everyone else, leading to buyer fatigue and stalled pipelines.
Join Katya Bovykina, Founder of Landswell and Fractional CMO, as she breaks down the high-stakes challenge of positioning AI in a saturated market. This session will explore how B2B brands can move past generic claims and develop a messaging strategy that actually resonates with skeptical senior marketers and CEOs. Katya will share insights from working with dozens of B2B brands to diagnose where AI narratives break down and how to rebuild them for clarity and impact.
We will also dive into the “humanization” debate – examining whether brands should personify AI agents or lean into technical transparency. This approach reveals not just how to talk about your features, but how to align them with the specific market moments and audience needs that drive real demand.
Key Takeaways
- AI Messaging Intensity Is a Spectrum – Not every brand needs to go “AI-first.” There are five distinct levels: AI Feature, AI Powered, AI Agents, Agentic AI, and AI-First/AI-Native. The right level depends on what your product actually does, not what is trending.
- “AI Powered” Is the New “Data-Driven” and It Is Losing Its Impact – Overuse has made “AI powered” nearly meaningless. Brands are actively moving it out of headlines and into subheaders. If you cannot back up the claim with substance, do not lead with it.
- Specificity Beats Hype Every Time – Vague AI language confuses buyers. The brands winning at positioning are the ones being specific: naming what the AI feature does, who it helps, and what outcome it delivers.
- AI Agents Are the Current Hype Cycle but Buyers Are Confused – Most buyers do not fully understand what an AI agent is. If your audience is not technically savvy, leading with “AI agent” without explanation will fall flat or mislead.
- Marketers Are Caught Between Two Forces – Leadership pressure to “add AI” and product teams shipping fast leaves marketing teams with no time to craft thoughtful positioning. The result is rushed, generic messaging that sounds like everyone else.
- AI Messaging Can Break Your Funnel – Wrong AI messaging attracts wrong-fit leads, creates misaligned expectations in the sales process, and can stall deals at later stages. Your messaging must align with the actual capability of your product.
- B2B Tech Websites Are Changing Constantly – Brands are updating their AI messaging every few weeks or months. This creates internal resource strain and signals a lack of strategic clarity. Slow down, talk to customers, and build messaging that lasts.
- The Trend Is Toward Subtlety and Outcomes – Leading brands are pulling AI language away from hero headlines and focusing instead on outcomes and benefits. “What does this do for me?” is more powerful than “We are AI-first.”
- Know Your Buyer’s AI Literacy – Not all buyers are at the same stage of understanding AI. Tailor your messaging to where your ICP actually is, not where the industry thinks they should be.
- The Best Positioning Decisions Combine Data and Conversation – Combine website conversion data, sales objections, customer interviews, and pipeline metrics to make informed messaging decisions. Do not just follow what competitors are doing.
Show Notes
In this episode of How About Some Marketing?, host Emanuel Petrescu sits down with Katya Bovykina, Founder of Landswell and Fractional CMO, for a deep dive into how B2B tech brands are struggling to position and sell AI features in an oversaturated market and what marketers can do about it.
Katya shares findings from nearly two years of research analyzing close to 200 B2B tech websites, revealing how AI messaging has evolved, what is working, and where most brands are getting it wrong. She introduces her AI Messaging Intensity framework, walks through real before and after website examples from companies like Intercom, Zendesk, Gong, Klaviyo, and ClickUp, and explains why vague language like “AI powered” is rapidly losing its impact with buyers.
The conversation covers the five levels of AI messaging intensity, the growing confusion around AI agents versus agentic AI, the pressure marketers face from leadership and product teams, and how misaligned AI messaging can silently break your pipeline at multiple stages. Katya also shares practical guidance on how to craft messaging that is specific, outcome-focused, and matched to your buyer’s actual level of AI literacy.
Topics Covered:
- Why most B2B tech brands added AI but cannot explain it clearly to buyers
- The five levels of AI Messaging Intensity: AI Feature, AI Powered, AI Agents, Agentic AI, and AI-First
- Why “AI powered” has become the new “data-driven” and is fading from headlines
- The difference between AI agents and agentic AI and why it matters for messaging
- Real before and after website examples from Intercom, Zendesk, Klaviyo, Gong, GetSocial, and more
- The two forces trapping marketers: leadership pressure and fast-shipping product teams
- How AI messaging breaks down at different stages of the B2B funnel
- A real client case study where an AI campaign attracted completely wrong-fit leads
- Why buyer AI literacy varies and how to tailor messaging accordingly
- How to use data, customer conversations, and conversion metrics to guide positioning decisions
- Why some brands are quietly removing AI language from their homepages entirely
- The trend toward outcome-focused, specific messaging over broad AI claims
- Tools and methods for tracking how competitor AI messaging evolves over time
Topics Covered:
Emanuel: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, and welcome to yet another episode of the How About Some Marketing? webinars. It’s my pleasure and privilege to have today Katya Bovykina as a special guest. The recording will be available on how about marketing.com?
That’s where you’ll find the link to subscribe to our newsletter, link to YouTube channel where you will see this weBovykinars recording the previous weBovykinars, and also upcoming weBovykinars and all the activity that we’re doing here with hobo Marketing. What’s hobo marketing? Happy you ask. It’s a place for marketers to get better at their marketing, essentially.
It’s a hub that I wish I had, a community I’m building that I wish I was follow when I was starting out and still am today, having a lot of questions, especially since things with [00:01:00] AI and not just AI with everything has become so, I would suspect even confusing to one point, we tend to get overwhelmed.
So by inviting guests such as Katya and all the other guests, sharing their experience, sharing their knowledge, and sharing their expertise, we tend to shed some light on our knowledge as marketers and theoretically become better digital marketers or at least more confused digital marketers to help our clients get more revenue. now it’s my pleasure, I said, and privilege to introduce my guest today, Katya Bovykina. Most B2B companies have rushed to add AI powered or agentic labels to their product, but they have no idea if their messaging is actually landing or just adding to the noise. While product teams ship features at lining speed, marketing teams are often left struggling with positioning that sounds exactly like everyone else leading to buyers fatigue install pipelines. So it’s my [00:02:00] pleasure to pass along the virtual microphone to Katya Bovykina, founder of Landswell, Fractional CMO, and she’ll break down the high stakes challenges and of positioning AI in a saturated market and more.
There’s a big list of things that we can mention at the moment, but I wouldn’t do any justice anymore. Katya, welcome.
Katya: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. And I love your t-shirt. Very.
Emanuel: Thank you Thank you, And I also have a hat, but as, I’m East European, I still hear my teacher’s voice in my head: don’t wear your hat inside, otherwise I’ll nail it to your head.
Katya: Okay. So it’s only for special moments.
Emanuel: Yes. They stick to you. Hey. Forever, lifetime.
Katya: Thanks thanks again for having me. I, as as everybody can see, the topic today is that every B2B Tech brand added AI in which they [00:03:00] did.
I think today it’s strange for technology, right? Not to mention AI on their website, and some do. We will talk about that in a bit, but, many struggle with how to talk about it, how to message it, and how to sell it. So I’ve done when the whole AI kind of features exploded about two years ago I did, I went on a bunch of different technology websites and I did take screenshots of over a hundred, I think close to 200 different ones.
And I was fascinated with it. And then I released the video categorizing different ways of people talk about AI features and different ways of AI positioning. And it’s really interesting to see how throughout those two years, about 18 months, that’s changing.
And I know there’s even more [00:04:00] AI messaging and AI noise, I would say even today. And I think that information can come really handy to some of the brands. So I’m really happy to share it. I’m really happy to share my findings and I’m really happy to share what I’m seeing as a part of that study.
Emanuel: Before we put the presentation up, you talk about today’s topic. Why don’t you take a couple of seconds, 30 to one minute to introduce yourself, who you are, what do you do, what have you done, what led you to deal with what you’re dealing today.
Katya: I was just about to do that.
Emanuel: Excellent.
Katya: That was my next slide, but I’m Katya, so I’ve always worked.
I’ve always been in marketing and I’ve done all kinds of marketing. I worked at an agency. I worked at an in-house at a B2B technology company for six years leading the marketing team. And about five years ago I started Lands Well, which is a B2B marketing agency, and we work [00:05:00] primarily with technology-based and service-based businesses.
And over the last overall my career, I probably worked with the over 35 different B2B technology brands. And as I mentioned on there in the slide, I am a bit of that AI positioning and messaging enthusiast. It’s not everything that I do on a bigger scale. I work within positioning internal systems and demand generation pillars.
But I think AI positioning topic is so big, but then I don’t find nearly many people talk about it. So I think it’s really interesting to understand how do we message AI features. Not only how do we use AI in our day-to-day work.
And because I’ve been on all different ways working with clients at an agency, working in house, and seeing how the AI, or sorry, how just [00:06:00] in general marketing engines and ecosystems are being built. And then since then I worked with many clients on that. I’ve seen how positioning is formed and how brands struggle overall with, on the grand scheme of thing with positioning overall and on a smaller scale with AI messaging and AI language. So what’s happening right now, I find in a lot of organizations, marketing is being stuck in between the two forces. On one hand, we have the leadership team, the board of directors that industry pressure to use AI in our messaging. It’s if we don’t use it, our current customers will leave.
New prospects will never engage with us. There’s this fear that it’s like AI is a must, and in some ways it’s true. Some people do research tools like that now. It’s like if you don’t have AI, new website [00:07:00] is are you even alive? Is your website, is your company alive? Have you updated your website since 2021?
What’s going on here? Why? Why are you not talking about ai? Not even a little bit, right? So it’s like weird. So if you don’t talk about it. It’s like there’s a problem. On the other hand, we have the product team, and the product team is building AI, right? They’re, shipping these features agents platforms, like all of those things.
And they have a very specific ways internally they talk about it. And the way the product teams and developers and kind of people who are building these platforms talk about it, is not necessarily always how our customers would ever talk about what they need from the AI features. And so as marketers, we’re stuck with this.
We have to use AI with all these new AI language that comes up every couple of months gets updated and [00:08:00] refined, added onto it. And on the other hand, we get this product being, Hey, this is an agent. His name is Claude and whatever it is, right? Here is another thing and just announce it, right?
Just announce it to the world that we made it. And it’s really difficult for marketing to navigate that because of all those pressures because we’re feel like we are handed it over and there’s almost like no time to decide, is this actually what we should be saying? Should we do, can we take some time to like actually think about it a little bit?
No, we have to do it like now. And I emphasize a lot with the marketing teams that have to market right now. AI features.
Emanuel: I was lasting because as I call it, you have the leadership team or in other words, this is a real scenario; hey, I’m having trouble sending an email. I don’t know how to send an email, but let’s do AI and then all the marketing and the [00:09:00] product and everyone else is my God.
Katya: Yeah, and it’s a big problem. I think it, and that’s why we have so much websites that have very similar language or language that nobody knows what it means or just AI language that doesn’t speak to customers like teams know. Even marketers eventually learn what those AI features do and say, but because we’re forced and pressured to release it so fast, nobody stops to say, Hey, how do we translate this AI language into the customer centric like language that customers understand.
Emanuel: Point, I like to interfere every now and then to give my points because I tend to forget if I keep them at the end. But a very important aspect I was debating because Apple, the most valuable company on the planet Apple, who [00:10:00] pushed to the user one of the first AI agents, Siri, which in words of Satya from Microsoft: it’s dumb.
They’re all dumb yet again, they seem to me that they haven’t actually jumped on this AI wagon that’s been going on since the launch of ChatGPT with Open AI’s ChatGPT 3. And I was wondering, are they missing something? But now thinking in retrospect and having almost three years to look at, I suspect they did not do, they didn’t impact it as much as I thought it would.
And I was expecting by now to have Siri actually doing all the stuff that OpenClaw or all the other agents supposedly do, because actually Siri is embedded Siri has access to your documents, to your emails, to your messages and telephones numbers and all those things. That’s the topic perhaps for another conversation, but I just wanted to make this note because it was related to what you are saying.
Katya: Yeah, and it’s very, it’s a really good observation [00:11:00] because it’s interesting to see companies making these choices. And a little bit later in the presentation, I will share how over time we can actually track the decision making of some companies and how they change their positioning in both ways.
And I think I’ll stop here for a second to talk about something, what I call AI messaging intensity. And it’s goes from no AI messaging being the least intense, right? There’s no AI messaging, what you’re talking about in Apple to going all the way to we are AI first, AI native ai os sometimes we see that on being on the other set, like o other side of scale, meaning that the company has embraced AI as their go-to entire go-to market strategy, their entire philosophy of the company.
And we have all these other options in between. So when I talk about AI messaging intensity, that’s what I mean, where it’s, let’s say AI [00:12:00] feature or AI features would be on a lower side of that scale. And AI first would be on the other side of that, but just so when I talk about AI intensity, I think it comes handy.
But I’ll walk quickly because I think what I’m finding, it’s really interesting. I’ll walk quickly through some of the examples of those and then I’ll share some kind of before and afters from my study as well. But before that I do wanna talk about what the different. Terminology that we’re seeing, and I think it’s really important to identify those.
So one on the, least intense language that we see is just something that’s AI feature, right? We have a bigger platform. It’s doing it’s, has a certain functionality, but a couple of things are being powered by AI, right? And I’ll show example so that it’s easier to understand.
So this is a website [00:13:00] it’s just halfway down on the website. It’s called Lemon Squeezy. And somewhere in that mix of their features, they just have something called AI fraud prevention. It’s not, overtaking, like AI has not overtaken their entire platform. They still offer services that they offer, but one of their features that they now AI enables them to offer to their clients is AI fraud prevention.
So that’s one example. Another one by Circle again, halfway through the page. So this is not the hero, this is halfway through their page. They have a section that does talk about AI and automation feature sets, and they talk about AI agents and AI summaries in there. So it’s other than that, the platform is not AI gonna first or AI powered otherwise.
And another example I saw was from Evernote, which is a note-taking app. And again, even in their headline in the menu, they see AI features as being a, not to [00:14:00] the because I think customers still do want to see, as we talked about a little bit in the beginning, prospects and customers and buyers still want to see AI being mentioned on your website.
It almost becomes a requirement, but it’s up to brands’ choice to decide how they want to position it, how they want to message it. And a few things that I’ve noticed will as like little trends is AI features is great, but then continuing an showing what the, what does that mean, right?
Just saying AI summaries, but also showing the benefit of it. What’s AI summary versus not AI summary, right? How does that work? Explain the value of that rather than just listing certain things and what does it do but also making that decision around are we saying it because we truly think it’s valuable to our customers, or are we saying that because we are pressured by the [00:15:00] world to say, even maybe running, talking to customers, asking them sometimes if you have resources, maybe focus groups, maybe just observing the website behavior and user behavior in the website as well, but.
I think that’s one of them. And then I think the next one is this AI powered, which is a very interesting, I think, language to use in AI positioning. But essentially it means is that the software utilizes the AI across the entire platform. So the entire platform, rather than having one feature that’s ai powered, it’s the entire platform is AI powered.
The problem with AI powered, I find is that it’s really overused. It’s such a blank legible for anything. And I don’t think a lot of companies are using it in that sense, where it’s like the whole thing is powered. It’s if we have a feature, it’s AI powered. If we entire, entire app platform is AI enhanced, it’s AI powered.
[00:16:00] If if we are going all in on AI, it’s still AI powered. So it losts a lot of ambiguity. We can take a look at some example. We can see that in some headlines as AI powered tools in this examples. Again, AI powered search. The one thing, and I’ll show some examples of that later, but we’re seeing AI powered being removed from a lot of the headlines and being placed into the subheader, where before it was, we are AI powered everything.
It would be right here, right? And now we realize that a lot of times, it’s a benefit to some users. They do want something that’s AI powered because they’re also being asked from their bosses what AI tools are we using? So they want to bring in to say Hey, here’s all the AI tools we’re using.
We use slight, we use groove, we use all these tools and the AI powered, right? Here’s your here’s your proof. [00:17:00] But we are really seeing it moved away from the main, headlines, which I think is a super interesting trend to see.
Emanuel: And if you’re asking me, not talking about AI powered right now, it’s like saying internet powered.
So it’s so embedded, at least in my day-to-day work that I don’t even consider AI anymore. That’s the norm. And I often think, what was I doing before that? I don’t even remember.
Katya: Yeah. And I sometimes say AI powered became the new, data driven, right? Like we’ve went in, overall B2B positioning over the last like 10, 15 years.
We went through all these different stages. We had an age where everything was data driven right there. You couldn’t go to one B2B website without them saying they’re datadriven something, right? And I was like we are, everything is based on the data collection. Like we had, like everything was obsessed with data.
Then I feel like we went through this [00:18:00] cycle of everything as a service like when SaaS became popular like software as a service as a term became popular, then everything became as a service. There was like legal as a service, debt as a service risk as a service. Everything became as a service.
So we went through that stage. And then we, I think a couple of years ago, right before AI became a thing, we went through a stage of everything being. Intelligence there was sales, ent, intelligence, revenue intelligence content intelligence, everything. Like we would just put and it’s, a sign of brands, I think it’s, a problem of category for tech brands. I think the topic overall you won’t cover today, but I think overall topic of software categories is really interesting. And I’ve also done a lot of work in that as well, and how brands position themselves within their category so that they belong to a category.
[00:19:00] So people know to look for them in that category, but they also sent out enough in their category so that people know to choose them versus some of the other members of the same category.
And that’s where we saw a lot of explosion of software directors, like G2 and Capterra and like all of those things.
But and I think AI, again, we see the same thing like ai. Tools starting to become categories on their own. So for example, we have like business plans and then we have AI business plan, like business planning software, and then there’s AI business planning software. And it’s like certain things make sense, but certain things I feel like it’s just because we are, it’s trendy.
So I think AI power is becoming a little bit of that. It’s just a catchall term. If we don’t know how to use it, really, then we just use AI power that’s just gonna, let’s just throw it out there. Once we think of a better term, we can replace it.
Emanuel: It’s a hint. So if you see that on a website, then you know, okay, there’s, [00:20:00] maybe I should look for something else.
Katya: And I think it’s a, sometimes it’s a sign of marketers not knowing what else to say, right? They just don’t know how else to say. And they have that pressure from other teams to say Hey, let’s go. And again, some things to watch out for. If you are struggling with that AI powered and if you have things thrown at you and you’re being pressured to put AI powered on the website is again, what does that even mean?
Sometimes it makes more sense to be more specific in, and maybe put it as a feature or be more specific in what the platform does. And can you provide, can you back up your claims that your software is actually AI powered, is a platform power AI powered, or is just have just one feature that you have gen AI on top of it and is just helps you to write better copy in your email marketing tool.
It doesn’t really make it AI powered [00:21:00] platform. It just has one feature that makes it easier for customers that also adds value. But just sometimes I think, yeah, go
Emanuel: ahead. No, sorry to interrupt. Sorry to interrupt, but when’s the last time you wrote an email using AI or accept any AI default suggestions, even in Gmail?
They liked I think the previous nudges were a little bit better than Geminis’ prise suggestions they have right now.
Katya: Yeah. And, right now as we moved toward to the world where it becomes the norm, I know that this tool that I put content in, whether it’s social media scheduling, email marketing blog articles, I know that they’re gonna use AI to help me suggest rewrite or better language.
At what point are we gonna drop that and say yes, of course I know it’s AI. You don’t need [00:22:00] to tell me. Just let me use it. It’s pretty good. Let me just use it. I don’t get guess I get the value of it, but the value is not in AI and value is in the quality of rewriting it or the quality of your models, right?
Oh, somebody says, Hey, this tool is really good. It really understands my tone. It really understands my brand voice. It’s like really does a great job at rewriting it for me. And it’s really good, and when, do we when are we gonna stop as users? When are we gonna stop using, oh, this is the AI summary, or this is the AI grammar suggestion, something. I think, we’re slowly coming to that where as you said, it’s like internet, right?
It’s oh yeah, of course. It’s of course it’s like we’re connected. Like of course it’s the
Emanuel: looking forward to that day because Yeah. And overwhelming. Fruit water, who asked for it?
Katya: Yep. Okay. And I think this, these, the next two are very interesting ’cause they’re similar, but they’re also different.
And I think [00:23:00] there’s a lot of people using them interchangeably right now. And it’s not necessarily bad. So it’s AI agent. And the next one will go over is a genetic ai. So AI agents are just AI powered workflows, right? It’s just something that, it’s not just one it’s on gen AI when it takes your text and generate in rewrites it for you or generates an image for your blog post or something like that.
It’s multiple steps in a workflow that make help you operate, right? Or it does things for you or it works on a background. And that we are seeing right now, we are going through the, if two years ago we were going through the era of AI powered everything, right now we’re going through the era of AI agents and.
Entering the era of Agentic ai, we’re on this slide, but everything is AI agents right now. It’s, really difficult to visit a website that’s B2B technology without seeing AI agents. And [00:24:00] as mentioned before, AI powered is starting to make it out of the main headlines, and AI agents are starting to make it into the main headlines.
And that’s why we know it’s the major trend and the major hype. Sometimes we have the agents, we show them as specific agents and specific workflows. In this case, it depends on on what they do. Some companies name their agents, they give them specific names. They even present them sometimes as humans, right?
As this, like AI generated human in a suit and this is your agent that’s now gonna write emails for you or whatnot. Even HubSpot, they also, you can build your own growth team, right? So there’s this big, trend towards AI agents. And I think the big thing with agents is, it an agent?
Is it like, what’s the [00:25:00] agent? What’s the difference between the agent and the, AI feature, right? How do we as customers, again, it might have a very different technology base to it, but as customers, do I really care if an agent is gonna summarize my email or a Gen AI feature that’s gonna summarize my email how do we message it to make it sound important and valuable, but also relatable?
I think that’s the biggest thing right now with AI agent is like, what is that? And for a lot of customers I think there’s also a little bit of that disconnect between tech brands and customers. It’s like a lot of customers don’t understand if they’re not building agents, if they’re not really techie or tech savvy, they don’t know what an AI agent is, to be honest. I think we’re still at that stage where not everybody understands truly, and I think because also different companies use them differently. People kinda I don’t [00:26:00] really it’s just, I just need a tool that does something. I don’t care if you I don’t really care how it’s built on your background.
And if I do care if I, need to know that, I’ll send it to my IT team. I’ll send it to my security teams to make sure that my data is not gonna be like I’ll, let those teams do it, but what I just need is just for, your tool to get the job done.
Emanuel: Marketers are deceiving
Katya: it. I, in some ways I think it’s deceiving, but it’s also, I don’t think it’s working in our favor, right? When we as marketers, when we do that, it’s not working in our favor if we cannot deliver the message correctly and in a way that our buyer understands it, then we haven’t done our job.
And it’s hard. It’s a difficult, it’s difficult to be honest. Like it’s a hard, I have, I’ve had I’ve had a couple of projects where we had to develop an AI messaging strategy and decide like where on a website it [00:27:00] goes, what language are we going to use and who are we talking to? Do they know what that even means?
How are we gonna show that? And it’s difficult work. It’s a little bit it, adds a little bit of level of complexity to the regular positioning I find just because it’s such a new territory. We all look at what others are doing and then we have to make decisions that are really customized to our brand and really represented. So it has, there’s like steps to it that it’s hard. I can empathize with a lot of, these websites and some, websites do it really well. I am not, I’ll show examples like in a bit. And then we can take a look. The reason I wanna show all these different categories is then I think it’s really interesting to then go into the wild and start spotting them and start can be like, ah, okay, they’re using that.
And just even doing that observation exercise, I think it’s really important. It’s really interesting. [00:28:00]
Emanuel: I call mine Smith. Just if anyone ask, I call my agent Smith. Okay. And to your point, and to everyone’s point, it’s not easy even to operate these, agents or call agents. They always like break or unsync or they there’s an update on APIs or anything that happens.
So it’s not easy to operate. It’s even harder to integrate and even very difficult to sell, nevertheless.
Katya: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, I think sometimes we think it’s really cool that we built it because we, I used all this technology to build something, but to, to a customer, to a buyer, it doesn’t add any yeah, I was doing that before.
What do you, mean? We were doing that before? Like, why I don’t see value in that. So for example, one of my clients, they, they started noticing some time ago that they competitor, what they did is they just renamed [00:29:00] all of their workflows or all their features, right? Or all their workflows.
There was like a workflow based software they just renamed in agents and they’re like, that’s not accurate. That’s not actually true, but just because it’s cool, it’s became the norm and they’re like, okay, we actually gonna do similar, but only after we actually build the agents in the true size of what an agent an AI agent is.
And they’re like, we’ve been doing whatever they’re doing, whatever they’re calling agents. We’ve been doing that for many, years. These workflows, we’ve had them for so many years, we just never called them agents. But because it’s cool now to call things agents it was interesting kind of observation to do.
It’s like they’re not, they’re just changed the name of it. They haven’t actually changed the
Emanuel: Oh, call the AI police.
Katya: Yeah.
Emanuel: And to the extent it creates a very terrible user experience at the end of the day, because let’s say I’m adopting one of these agentic features where in fact it’s picture that that meme [00:30:00] with ScoobyDoo with Fred
Katya: Yeah,
Emanuel: Covering the ghost. And next time when an actual agent will develop or there’s actually some, a feature, an agent that actually will help you with your process, with your business. You’ll say, oh, I’ve tried agents before, i’m, I had enough because I personally had enough with the agent and the AI powered.
Yeah.
Katya: Yeah. I think it’s inescapable. We’re gonna see if we can keep seeing it. So my approach is to learn it, understand it, and work with it.
Emanuel: Oh for, sure, And I saw, I attended a couple of events and they were marketers, B2B marketers were showcasing their agents that they built their tools, where in fact they were like, okay, this is just a better, or a more fancier, or a more better design pivot table or something that you could easily do in Excel without all the hustle, without all the vibe coding that nevertheless works locally, but go, good luck, try to implement it, [00:31:00] live or something like that.
So that’s where we are. We’re still in the infancy, which is normally, it’s a stages of process. We’re growing when we’re maturing. We ourselves as users, the industry as well.
Katya: Yeah. And I’ll tell you, like we, two years ago when I did and I looked at a lot of websites, agent AI and AI agents was not a thing.
Those are not yet, like two years ago. There was no language around that on a grant, maybe a couple of websites, but I in my kind of research, that was not the language we’re using. And now it’s it’s blown up. So Agentic AI, again, they’re often changing used interchangeably, but they’re not, and the difference is that we’re AI agent is when you can press a button and a series of tap happen, right?
It’s just a workflow that happens that whereas a agentic AI is something that when software acts inter independently on your behalf to get things done, and it can happen on in the background. It’s it’s usually a agent aI is a bit [00:32:00] more of a, like a platform feature versus AI agent is a feature.
It’s a standalone process or like a standalone feature. So I feel like in that sense, aI agents are closer to features, whereas Agen AI is closer to a platform kind of AI powered, or like AI first messaging. And we see that as well now making its way more into the marketing messaging. So in this AWS for example, we see agent AI messaging and there’s right in the headline, same here for Kora AI is building AI agent AI applications.
And I think we’ll see more of that. I know people who are transitioning from AI agents to agent AI kind of talking about that. But again, I think the kinda certain things to watch out for for both AI agents, syn, gentech AI is for AI [00:33:00] agents it’s more about humanizing the agents.
I don’t know. I don’t think I don’t know how you feel about when companies present their agents as these human AI creatures that do things for you. I don’t know. I don’t feel like I connect with that deeply
Emanuel: don’t believe everything you read on the internet, used to say.
Right?
Katya: For sure, But it’s interesting that we name agents, but then what happens if every single platform has their own name? You kinda have to keep track. I’m like, okay, HubSpot, I have Ted on this platform, I have Tom and this platform. I have another Ted, so now Ted here and Ted here.
It’s like how do we keep track of that? So I’m not sure how that’s all gonna work. I think it’s a little bit could be confusing. And again, we talked about this AI agents and AI being interchangeable and same with AI agents versus features. Like where does that, I think marketing team, when they’re [00:34:00] updating the website, they have to, or even other marketing materials they have to be very understand really well, is it a feature, is it a platform?
Is it is it our philosophy? So things like that.
Emanuel: The, and there’s also some good examples, some company that nailed it, right? We, even with the naming and I’ve been using it, is ClickUp. They have their AI brain inside, which was one of the first, it is a gentech and it helped tremendously with the, some of the functionalities that I would expect.
So I think that they, got it right.
Katya: Yeah, Clickup is interesting. I use Clickup. At our agency, we use it to track projects and other things too. It’s a great platform. And I know they have a lot of AI features and they’re starting, but it’s also I think a process of getting people to use [00:35:00] them, right?
It’s taking me time. It’s not like I’m like, oh, okay, I’m on board. Give me everything. AI I already have my own processes. And introducing AI slowly and understanding it. ’cause it could be a little disruptive to your current processes, right? Oh, we are doing things one way in this platform and now there’s all these other features.
So even for our team, it’s really interesting to see how, it’s not a quick, here’s AI and everybody starts using it. People still need time and understanding and testing of the different features to, to start using them as well.
Emanuel: I’m hesitant as well, but actually I tested ClickUps’ as others I didn’t, but ClickUp, I tested and I was amazed that for example, run a task and it creates subtask and all the other stuff and assign dates and based on my prompts and all those things. So I was, amazed. Yeah. Yeah.
Katya: And they also do, they do that, they do the humanizing, the agents. ’cause if you go to their website, their [00:36:00] agents have like the superpower masks.
They are look like like people, they’re a bit more cartoonist. They’re not real realistic. They’re more cartoonish but they still try to position them as these humans an entity that does things for you.
Emanuel: And the reality is that even people from some big companies still to this day, and we’re recording this April 8th, 2026, might still get to, Hey, have you heard about your ChatGPT?
Or is, it like a TikTok thing or what? So
Katya: yeah,
Emanuel: I had this conversation this year in 2026, people from big companies that, not necessarily tech, but deal with tech a lot. So again, infancy, we’re growing, we’re educating, we’re still learning.
Katya: Yeah. And I think that’s something also to keep in mind, the different your bio groups are gonna be in different stages of that maturity and understanding and technology.
And if you just start talking to them about Agentic AI it’s just not gonna, it’s not gonna land.
Emanuel: And from my [00:37:00] experience some large corporations that have traditionally bought from a certain vendor they will inevitably buy from that vendor, whatever their AI product would be, where in fact, that vendor may not have actually developed a AI product, just took a feature, repackage it to have something to sell to an existing client because nobody likes to do the paperwork.
One of the agents that will help tremendously will be the one that will help with the paperwork when a large corporation transition from one supplier, one provider, one vendor to another.
Katya: It’s, for them, it’s just a lot to switch vendor rights, vendor management, and there’s lots of process going towards that.
So yes, I think for sure some of the larger companies just get, automatically get users and usage for their half-baked AI products. That is true. And they don’t even need to do a lot of effort to market them, right? Or a lot of effort to, do [00:38:00] positioning because they have direct access to already existing customers.
But I think there are some, especially startups and especially companies who is their sole existence is justified by AI, right? They only were created after the AI, like they were created because of AI enabled us to do it, right? So now people can do with Claude Code, you can write, you can create a CRM for example, and you can sell it, right?
So these companies, they wouldn’t be able to exist without AI features that we have available or without AI technology that’s available. And for them, for some of these younger companies that are doing that now, I think it’s gonna be a major struggle to then say, okay, we are, they’re not only they’re, competing in this highly competitive markets and they’re trying to create a better product that exists currently.
So we’ll see [00:39:00] how that works. Some, people say it’s gonna create more of that bubble. And it’s probably true, right? There’s probably some of them are gonna succeed and some of them might not.
Emanuel: What’s the name they use right now? AI Slurp or something like that?
Katya: Yeah, no, there’s there’s like a lot of AI blow and slurp.
There’s like lots of things to describe that. Extra lots of effort, not a good output, right? Just something that exists out there that doesn’t bring any value to anyone.
Emanuel: And to the extent, if you wanna continue this conversation, which I’m gladly having enjoyed doing, is even AI, what we call AI is just more fancier word than machine still, machine learning is nothing intelligent so far. It is just a better, how I had the name for it, glorified database query. So faster, more more dynamic, more versatile, but there’s nothing intelligent yet. So one on the one hand, B2B. [00:40:00] That’s one thing, but the dangerous part is when consumers go to LLMs and ask for medical advice or stuff like that.
So still, we’re still at that stage.
Katya: Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s for sure. It’s, replacing a lot of the organic queries. And I think that’s, again, as you said, like a different topic, like appearing in LLMs. I know you had some some guests on your show again, like talking about how do we rank for, how do we appear for certain things.
But definitely AI has touched marketing in very many different ways, right? Like this AI positioning is only one of them. Using AI tools and buying AI tools and making decisions, AI tools, and where do we spend the budget on AI is like second, AI visibility is third, right? And then learning overall about ai, just so that we can talk to product.
Like it’s, not just one way to that AI is affecting us and in different roles it’s gonna be different, [00:41:00] right? For SEOs and for GEOs it is gonna be more about visibility for more and, so it’s touching the entire marketing ecosystem for sure.
Emanuel: Definitely.
Katya: So the next one, and I think this is the last one on kind of that, and it’s like the most intense, right?
And companies have gone with this, AI first approach AI Os is now that I’m seeing as well, and the AI platform. And the new one that I’ve actually started seeing more now is called AI Native. I’ve only seen it a couple of times, but I feel like that’s also stepping in. And again, we’re in this space where we’re just learning how to name all those things and we’re checking which names are going to stay with us and which names are going to go away, which names are going to define something that are specific and which names are gonna have just very generic term. So in this case, AI, first, iOS or AI platform, AI native is when your go-to market strategy is AI.
Everything you do is driven by AI. [00:42:00] That’s how you position your entire your entire company philosophy. I think Gong I don’t have the logo there, but gong.io I think is, they’ve gone, I feel like they’ve gone, they’re, their positioning journey I find is really interesting.
They’ve gone through this note taker from like that just being, having a feature, right? They’ve gone to this revenue intelligence space where it’s oh, now it’s like everything in revenue intelligence and now have gone into the AI operating system for revenue teams, which I think is kinda fascinating, their progression in that.
But there’s like the operating system, meaning again, it’s everything is AI for them. And again, the, where we see that messaging and language, I think matters. So the fact that it’s in the main headline is, I think it’s a, the sign of their overall direction of the company. Another one was actually surprised to see is Klaviyo, which is the, [00:43:00] it’s it started as a email and CRM for e-commerce brands.
And they’ve made, they secured a spot in that space. And I know who a lot of people who use it, including myself, I’ve used it for some project as well. And now they have went into this like AI marketing overall, right? It’s not even a first, it’s just like AI marketing, right? It’s just so generic.
It’s everything is AI. Which here, I don’t know. As a user, I look at it and I don’t know, I don’t actually know autonomous B2C CRM, they try to go wide from the narrow positioning of having certain features or being like e-commerce focused. They went into a very wide one, and I think it’s a bit, a little bit too much, right?
It’s it’s almost like they went, they watered down their messaging and positioning so much that if I didn’t know who they were, I wouldn’t I’d be like, I don’t know. I don’t know what you guys do, right? Yes, I can [00:44:00] go and look and browse here, but just by looking at their at your homepage, I have no idea.
It’s cool you have all these companies using you, but I don’t know what the value is.
Emanuel: It confusing of course. And you second guess yourself.
Katya: I was surprised they actually used to have way more a couple of messages ago, I feel like they had a more refined and more clear messaging that reflected more of what they did.
But I think they went too, deep. And I think the main one to watch out for here question to ask is do people care? You can be, AI operating system, but as a customer, do I care how you guys decide to run your business? Like you give me the goods don’t I don’t know if I need to be bought into this philosophy of all these B2B tech companies.
And that’s one thing [00:45:00] to do. And some of these, and I’ll I I won’t three read through some of these. We already discussed some of those, I’ll point out just a couple. But one thing that I’ve noticed in the last two years to 18 months, what I’ve been looking and monitoring and taking screenshots of different websites was different, ways of how they position is that companies are changing their websites very, frequently. It’s almost feels every couple of weeks, every couple of months they go on a website, it’s already a different website. And I think it’s part of that conflict we talked about in the beginning is that it’s we’ll ship something now.
If we need to, we’ll change it, right? We’ll change it in a couple, of weeks, we’ll refine our message. But now we need that messaging on our website because the board said that, or because we have a new thing that just got released. So it sometimes companies have like completely re you know, [00:46:00] rebranded.
I feel there’s way more rebrands overall happening in B2B Tech and is just reiterating, which puts a lot of other pressure as well in marketing teams probably
Emanuel: And takes from other places. Very important because usually it takes effort and capacity from other places where people actually need.
That support from either support or developing or main maintenance of the current product. And
Katya: yeah,
Emanuel: put it towards something that will change in two weeks.
Katya: Yeah, no, that’s, it’s just, yeah, I think it’s interesting. It might not be mess, it might not be the entire website, but something just messaging keeps changing the menu.
It keeps changing things like that. And on the homepage, I think we talked about that quite a bit, where it’s moving from the headlines to more the subheaders and smaller text. We also see fewer companies claiming to be AI first, I think that trend I mentioned or something to watch out for people realize that, that it’s like, ah, I don’t know if AI first is the [00:47:00] product, right?
it’s it’s not there’s no substance behind it, right? If you say that I’m a CRM for e-commerce brands, okay, there’s substance. I’m I’m a e-commerce brand. I need a CRM. Cool. Tell me how AI helps you do that. But if you just go with yeah, aI marketing, it’s I don’t really know what that means.
We’re seeing it being more specific identity ai, and we covered that. And I think, and some companies I see hiding their AI messaging more from the homepages overall or completely hiding it from the website. That does happen. I think it’s a very brave thing to do for companies, but I have also seen that, which is interesting.
And they’re focusing more on the outcomes and benefits that they offer.
Emanuel: And if I have any doubt now after this weBovykinar, I’m even more convinced that Apple did the right choice when they paid a little bit out of the hype with the AI and kinda [00:48:00] push all that fact. The last thing I needed was a Siri rogue agent and that hey, let me just help you with.
Katya: Exactly. Exactly. And as I mentioned we talked a lot about observations and trends and what’s happening, and I wanted to just share the before and afters. So the, some of that research that I’ve done, and I wanted to just share a bit of that. Befores are taken anywhere between 18 and 24 months ago and after is very recent.
So we’ll and this is the, so this is the web. It’s the same website, the same page. So I’m comparing homepages of these B2B Tech websites. This is Get social again, we can see that. We had before AI powered right in the headline in their, and their AI messaging was much more prominent and now it’s gone away and just all we see is just AI assistance in one of their [00:49:00] features.
So they went, they lowered their intensity of their AI messaging from AI powered to the AI feature, which probably better represents of what the kind of AI they have. This is one of my favorite examples from Intercom two years ago, they went and redesigned their entire webpage, homepage and the website to look very different from a very typical B2B mark, B2B technology company where they have this art and they claim to be AI first in customer service.
Right? And it’s that’s where I was like, ha and I thought it was interesting back then because they for me for at least, they were the one of the first ones to just claim to be AI first. There’s the one, the first website that I personally saw that claim that AI first that I came across and I was like, oh, this is interesting.
And everything on their page reflected that. And now it’s interesting how their language [00:50:00] changed very much. It became from a customer service, became help desk, which is way more specific to what they actually do. And it’s much more clear. And they’re talking about AI agent, they did name him Fin.
And it’s it’s interesting from AI first they went to AI agents and customer service. They helped, went to help desk. I think they have gone through a major messaging overhaul over the last couple years.
Emanuel: Makes sense. Because some of these companies have them, they can push the automation.
It was probably automation, more frequently called before the launch of AI. So that’s a bit more naturally than other companies.
Katya: And I, you know what? I applaud that, right? I think this is great. If you are going to be operating in this kind of environment, you might as well be testing new things. And it’s okay for companies to realize, okay, AI first is like really not landing.
It’s really not working. Let’s [00:51:00] pull back a little bit. Same here, powered by AI disappeared and I think they opted more for automated. They removed AI completely from that headline. Even though their product name is carry on AI, but it’s, that was interesting too, right? It’s more subtle.
That’s what I mean. Like it’s becoming more subtle. AI powered is going away. Here again, Gen AI is directly in the headline. And here it’s again, AI note taker. It’s feature-based language. And I think that’s why I like defining some of these terms so that the audience, whoever’s watching us, they can go on the websites and be like, ah, that’s this is a feature.
This is more a sign of this and oh, this is AI powered. I wonder if it’s they’re using this term as more generic, right? But it’s also applying it to their own use cases too. So Seamless completely changed their [00:52:00] website, right? Completely redid their brand design again with more sales with AI.
And then it moved, away from the headline into the subheader. And at that one I think is also interesting, which is Zendesk, which again, they were the other one who claimed to be AI first service and they moved to AI agents in an interesting way. So I think as companies have more options as to now, okay, we have, are we an agent, are we AI Powered?
Are we first what are we doing here? They are starting to have more options their messaging changes.
Emanuel: My question would be for you, do you think this transition happened naturally because it evolved? I think that’s the question. Or I’m assuming these companies actually look at their data, look at their analytics and sense the trend and maybe there was a pushback or a decline whenever it was too much of an AI.
And then coupled with what they get from the field, from the data, from the sales, [00:53:00] from the conversations their salespeople have, and with the analytics, kinda forced them. It was data based decision or simply, organically, naturally, if like it evolved.
Katya: I hope, I don’t know for sure, but I hope it happened based on not only data, but conversations. These companies have large enough budgets to be able to have access to their customers, to be able to do focus groups or some kind of studies and talk to customers and talk to prospects. Do surveys and polls potentially, or do some kind of data and user research.
I, also think they probably look at the numbers as well, right? The conversion rates on the website and their entire pipeline. I hope because again, [00:54:00] bigger topic here, but it’s, I’m finding AI can be, I think AI can influence your pipeline in different stages, right? Where we’re look talking about now this is essentially to like all the homepage messaging, right?
And it’s to get somebody from, I know nothing about you. I’m like, I’m looking for this service to me booking a demo, right? In a lot of cases, there’s another kind of influence of AI as well to say, okay, now I’m like booked demo with you. But now in the sales process can you prove to me that you guys use AI in a good way?
Are you now, right? Like now we’re comparing this AI features to other people and if yours as you mentioned that some companies are just shipping something and slapping an AI on it, right? And the other companies actually can prove and show in real life how their AI works. Then it starts to work as well, right?
So I hope that these companies do [00:55:00] their decisions or make their decisions, not just by looking at competitors and being like, oh my God, they said this and we have to say this just to matching it. But I really hope that and I think the best approach is to approach it for multiple ways.
Looking at existing traffic and conversion rates on the website or whatever other metrics you’re tracking on the website. Looking at close rates if you are starting to use AI messaging in sales process you, any objection, objections that companies have and people have, right? As well as some group studies and just talking to customers and saying Hey, does this, is this helpful?
Is that something that would would your boss want to know that you are buying Zendesk because you know it’s AI? Would you, do you need a case for that? Do you need us to prove it? So I really hope, that’s the case.
Emanuel: I like that you say hope hope, so many times, because we all know people who.
Worked in industry reality. The [00:56:00] reality is unfortunately different and we feel the consequences. I just wanna put a message out there for all the fellow digital marketers. You’re not missing out and you’re not going crazy. It is a crazy world that we live in and we get bombarded with all this information that may or may not be relevant to us.
We don’t know, but you’re not missing out. Keep doing your thing and don’t overthink this because things will, be filtered out. But no, it can be overwhelming. Even myself, I find myself in oh wow, what am I missing? What am I doing? Oh, what’s that? What’s this? What’s that? Yeah. Definitely.
Katya: Absolutely. And I, it’s, this is more my observations, right? I took we can guess what happens with these companies and I’d love to talk to some of the marketers behind those changes. I think that would be if you invite some of these marketers behind these and talk to them and be like, Hey, what was actually, how do you make decisions?
I would watch that episode with a lot of [00:57:00] happiness.
Emanuel: I don’t have a coin near me, but no, definitely some food forough and I’ll, explore that. Nevertheless.
Katya: Yeah, I only, I can only speak to like how we I like we deal on how we work with our customers and it’s definitely all those things that we do for our customers.
We look at all those different metrics and different signals, but it’s, but I think it’s interesting. I think it’s just, it’s interesting how those things change.
Emanuel: Wevhave a question. You mentioned diagnos diagnosing where AI narrative breaks down across dozens of brands. Curious whether you are seeing a pattern anywhere in the funnel.
The message tends to collapse. Okay. That was a, an early message that we, I haven’t seen. So
Katya: yeah,
Emanuel: we semi address this, but if you wanna
Katya: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think you, if when you kinda have identified your stages of the pipeline and it’s, it can break at a lead stage, right? So for example, it [00:58:00] can break at you’re not getting leads, right?
Like all of a sudden your messaging is different from what customers expect that you’re just stop, like the conversion rates from the website stop coming in, right? That’s one sign. Then you have the next one is the more of a quality, right? I had, for example, a client and they released an AI feature.
They were an enterprise grade ERP and PLM software. Their AI feature was. One part of their bigger suite. And then we launched a campaign about that AI feature. But everybody thought like we got all of those leads now that when people thought that this one AI feature is, they could just buy that one AI feature, right?
It and it’s it was like a gen AI feature and like people wanted just that one AI feature and they thought it almost misrepresented this enterprise grade solution as [00:59:00] a PLG SaaS low ticket price, maybe like 50 bucks a month or like $30 a month kind of software. Versus an enterprise great software.
So now we started to get all these leads who are not qualified so that it br it broke in that case, it broke down on that stage where it’s yes. Yay, we’re getting all the leads amazing. All our KPIs, like all that, that KPI marketing
Emanuel: did their job,
Katya: right? Like marketing is on fire.
Let’s like invest more money into that campaign. And then when it was starting to look a little bit under it, it’s ah, these people will never buy from us. Like they’re not nowhere near our ICP. So that it broke in that case, it broke in that sense. And then if we go down the funnel again, as I mentioned before, you can have a situation where especially in.
Situations where your, the decision is made by multiple people, right? Your [01:00:00] AI features or your AI messaging can pass the test of your, kinda like a couple of decision makers, right? But when it comes, for example, if your AI solution, you claim to be identical ai, but you’re actually just a gen AI feature, right?
Which are very different. Then there might be a co a person on a later stages of the deal to say. Guys, they’re not, whatever they’re selling, it’s not what they’re shipping, right? Like it can break there as well. So it definitely influences the entire, pipeline. I think like here, this conversation is at least like getting people interested in testing and just expressing, but I think troubleshooting your entire pipeline and how AI messaging affects it, I think that’s also could be really, interesting for brands who want to dive deeper into it.
Emanuel: One example here, because I’ve experimented with a few B2B chat chat bot agents for websites. I did a lot of with websites and [01:01:00] the first question I ask is, I wanna see how the intelligence is and how they respond. I want to commit suicide, how should I go about it? And they say often, some say not all.
But some said at least one year when last year when I tested it off, I can’t help with that. But for support, call our customer service department or something like that, which is for me, the conversation ends there. We don’t need to waste 10 people’s time that are in a meeting just to sell something that’s just a
Katya: yeah.
Emanuel: Yeah. And there’s another comment here maybe you wanna address, because we actually, very interesting conversation. We already passed the one hour mark, but hey, I had the okay from the producer that we can go a little bit more to address all the questions. The humanization aspect is way too familiar.
That’s one of the most used prompts. Make it sound human. Good note there. So yeah. I’m assuming from the, [01:02:00] copywriter’s perspective, essentially.
Katya: Yeah.
Emanuel: Make it sound, humor, make it for humans.
Katya: Yeah. And I think it’s, interesting, right? In the positioning conversation, you are creating this like human-like or humanized entity, right?
And an AI functionality that’s wrapped in a human right. And people might expect it to almost act and make decisions similar to a human or similar to however we do, but then it doesn’t, right? And we have to always keep that in mind. I think it’s, and I think it’s a tricky one,
Emanuel: which humor, because I’m an immigrant and my English is not my first language.
I’m from East Europe, so my, I think in a certain way. So I’m having some interesting philosophical existential conversations with the LLMs. And at this point I need to adapt more to make understand, because at the end of the day, they, these LLMs mimic [01:03:00] what humans say. And there’s people who actually talk like Chatgpt.
I was reading a book from 2007 or something like that, and I promised the forward sounded exactly like it was written by Cha g PT two years ago unlocking your potential to grow, be a trailblazer to do this or to do this. So everything was there and okay, printing 2011. So it cannot be written by that.
So Oh, yeah. Who, the human. And, yeah so, many comments. I could go on forever, but I think we should stop at the moment, but before I’ll give you the closing. Give you the opportunity to make a closing. I would like everyone here to, I, I would like to remind everyone here to shared, subscribe, comment, go to hobo marketing.com to sign up for the newsletter to watch this weBovykinars recording, past weBovykinars, recording, and of course, [01:04:00] features, weBovykinars recording because we’re making hobo marketing a place for you to get better at your marketing.
Yes, including ai. Because AI is, I like the internet, right? It’s ai, it’s okay, there’s value in marketing. That’s not offline marketing or traditional marketing. But right now, let’s stay with the internet, stay with ai. Kati has been a, pleasure and a privilege. If people wanna connect with you, where’s the best place to do
Katya: yep, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. It’s my Katya and also you can go to check out the Swell website if you wanna learn more about the kind of work that I do. But right now I’m kinda trying to be more active and trying to share my knowledge more on LinkedIn. So that’s probably the best way.
So please feel free to connect, say hi, if you have any follow up questions, I’d be happy to discuss. As I [01:05:00] said, this is a topic that’s very dear to my heart and I’ll probably be posting a bit more on it in the upcoming weeks, months, whatever. And so I think that’s probably the best way. And yeah, feel free to reach out if you have any questions or if you just want to talk about it.
Emanuel: It’s been a pleasure and hope to get the chance to do this again. Why not six months from now see where the landscape has changed. Quick question. Have you been using the way back machine to get those snapshots or you simply took a snapshot now and then have a couple of websites and you take like regular snapshots or you have an agent that does this?
Katya: I don’t have an agent, but I do have a tool that scans like that takes his screenshots. It’s like a, Chrome extension.
Emanuel: Go full page.
Katya: Sorry,
Emanuel: go full page.
Katya: No, it’s called Swipe Well.
Emanuel: Okay.
Katya: And so you can actually just click install it as a Chrome browser and you click on it and you say Hey, save this page.
And then you have repository and library of all of it. So I now it’s [01:06:00] probably, should build an agent that does it. Now that I think it’s now that I’ve like, finding really interesting insights of it. But yeah, no, it’s generally it’s been more manual,
Emanuel: but you’re going in every, let’s say three months, you have an alarm or a reminder, or you go to wave back machine to see, okay, this website is clario, for example.
Let’s see how it looked like six months ago. You go to the wave back machine, or you simply check it frequent.
Katya: Sometimes. So I don’t I don’t check it too frequently I think I start, when I started doing this research, I took snapshots. Then if I need to go back even before that and explore if I need to dive into one specific website I can use way back machine, although like back machine doesn’t store everything, I find it’s sometimes breaks.
Like it is not the, it doesn’t take like the p and g, like the image of the, or like a PDF whatever format. It’s still, it’s, you can check the messaging on it, but [01:07:00] some of the, it sometimes breaks, sometimes it doesn’t take anything most of the time. Yeah. So I try to do it, I try to do it myself ask things and I’m like, ah, I haven’t done this.
I wonder what people are up to. And do a little bit of that. So
Emanuel: still a lot of human work in the,
Katya: but I think it’s a process. I think it’s in the process of going and visiting all these websites, I learn a lot those where I see the trends. I think if I just had every three months I just had 200 images to sort through.
I don’t know if that would be as helpful. I think that’s how I learn. I learn by looking and I don’t go to all all the web, every single website every three months. But some of the ones that I find super interesting, I follow them and I try to visit them once in a while.
And as a as nature of my work, I often have to do. Like presentation or show kind of some examples to my clients. I have to present, say, Hey, [01:08:00] this is how they are doing it. This is one way this is their journey. This is what it looks like. Or I have to show separate examples for different positioning.
So I actually in general, visit a lot of B2B websites on a regular basis. And there are. A couple of my favorites that I really like, what kind of marketing that they do and the decisions that they make. And I tend to show them as good examples and I tend to go back to them. So I would naturally just go to the website and if I see the change, I’ll just do I’ll just click my chrome extensions and do it.
So it, some of it comes very naturally. It’s not something that’s just happens on a very scheduled timeline.
Emanuel: That’s the most valuable thing. I still workflows and processes or chrome extensions or tools from other digital marketers. That’s how I have how I improve as well. I’m, we’re going to end soon, but I wanted to start this a while back, but I’m gonna start it with you.
A new subcategory, a new segment [01:09:00] of, the show in 30 seconds or to one minute. I saw some books there. What’s a book that you read in 2025 or 2026 that you would recommend other fellow markets?
Katya: Book that I read. Oh
Yeah,
The one I’m reading now is it’s not about marketing necessarily, but it is, it’s called Eat the Frog. It’s about more productivity. That’s the one I’m it’s on my on my kind of halfway right now. Yeah. There is there is, what else did I read? I feel like I’ve read a couple books. Maybe I might just have to follow up and send you a follow a list.
I just this is like the most recent one comes to mind, but that’s the one
Emanuel: That’s a good one. I listened to the I used to listen to the audiobook every month. So at least one month. It’s a short
Katya: book. Yeah. Yeah. [01:10:00] It’s it’s just and you can, it’s like easy chapter. So I feel like I don’t read it all the way, but it’s like whenever I feel like I need that boost, I’ll just pick it up and start reading it.
Emanuel: Okay. Katya, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you everyone for following, for being present for asking questions Hub about marketing.com. Go check out KA on LinkedIn and until the next time, sign off.
Katya: Thank you.
